Language in TS during WvW events

Okay, so first things first, I've been a somewhat vocal critic of EG and the language they use in chat. I brought up the issue with members of the War Council after hearing complaints from my guild. It's important for me to state that I agree with you. EG should tone down the language in the public channels. 

However, saying "it should be fun for all" is where even I have to stop. Members of EG would say, and not without merit, that over policing the language in TS makes the game less fun for them. That yelling about fat kids makes the game more enjoyable for them. That we are taking the fun out of the game, not ensuring that everybody has fun. 

In the end, we must recognize that all players will have different ideas of what is acceptable, what is fun, and what is offensive. 

The only way to keep our community from being fragmented across multiple voice services/servers is to have clean and uncensored channels. EG should, and usually does, set the expectation that running with them will mean being exposed to language that would be considered family-unfriendly. In this case, it seems like their primary error was not in switching channels, but in starting in the clean channel in the first place. 

My suggestion to you will be the same as my suggestion to my guild members: if you don't want to be subjected to offensive language, do not run with EG. Ever. Regardless of channel.

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Karaoke (Loki | Oaky | Pokey | Smokey | Croaky | Cloaky | Soaky | Gnocchi)
Guild Leader - Super Mega Happy Fun Time [MEGA] - supermegahappyfuntime.com

Hey there. Thanks for writing this post, and thanks for being open to speaking what's on your mind. I'd rather people air out their grievances and make the request than sit idly by, or worse, avoid resolution on the issue. I understand that guilds like FIRE conduct themselves differently from us.

I also understand that a precedent has been set previously to maintain a family friendly atmosphere in the general Teamspeak channels. I will make sure that we make a point to use that channel more in the future to avoid further issues, but there is something I wanted to add here that I feel must be said. You wrote:

It's a game. It should be fun for all who would like to participate. We have language considerations in teamspeak so that people can enjoy game play, not so that commanders can commandeer the conversation like this ... I expect commanders to lead in a professional manner without swearing. Swearing does not change what we have to do. Nor does swearing help people do it faster. It is non-essential to the task. I expect leadership to handle this matter in a professional way.

With all due respect, when you ask that language considerations are made, you are commandeering conversation and setting a tone that might conflict with our idea of "fun." Of course, we abide by that tone when other guilds are commanding. And if we aren't abiding by that as well as you'd expect us to, I will extend my own name out here personally and tell you to contact me when my guildies aren't. I will drop whatever I am doing, if I am online, to rectify whatever issue arises. I make sure that we give the rest of the server their due respect, and I don't think what Nalgorath did was any different. You did not like the uncensored nature of his language, so he went to the uncensored channel. Is that not making the concessions we agreed upon as a server?

RE: vulgarity and professionalism in EG, this is very concerning to me as an officer and I think something that needs to be cleared up about our guild.

I curse up a storm on Teamspeak and I'm not going to shy away from that fact. I understand that you desire a space of professionalism, and I am a professional by trade as a PhD student and college instructor. But as you said this is a game. And as a game I play it to have fun and blow some steam. So when I play Guild Wars 2, I am playing it as a gamer and not as a college instructor. I will switch mental modes if need be, as all of us in leadership do in EG when it is necessary. Nalgorath is no different.

And in the position of helping manage and maintain a 500-man guild, I think it's important to clarify why we curse. To pull from the rhetoric of my own profession, we as EG officers generally make a point to shelve away the lectern. Though we are leaders of the guild, we are still friends with our members. It's important that we maintain a communal atmosphere. We are not strangers to them. And that means in many respects creating an environment where people are unafraid to speak freely. We don't curse to be abrasive. We curse because we feel comfortable around each other.

It is not, in any way, shape, or form our aim to create an "unfun" environment for anyone, and I will make sure that situations like these do not arise in the future.

Thank you.

We generally ask that the public WvW channels are kept fairly clean (and I understand, and accept that every commander has a different standard of "radio edit" type clean).  When someone has a complaint about language, there are 2 seperate, and equally correct steps the commander can take:

1) He/She can stop using the language, or ask the other person in channel to stop.  If they continue, the commander can kick from channel.

2) The commander can decide that they do not want to deal with language restrictions, and move to Sanctum Swag/guild channel.  That was what was chosen here.  

If you think that you are going to violate the language rule, you should probably start in the Sanctum Swag channel.  Commanders should have the ability to make temporary channels, so if Sanctum Swag is in use, make a temporary sub-channel under it and use that.  

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Archangels Haven [HALO] - WvW Command Team. Purchaser of the Golems. TS Administrator.

I was present for the situation. I think it wasn't so much the fact that he cursed as it was the response. Nal did carry a certain level of disregard for the fact that his demeanor was not the cleanest in the public channel. And, people were offended. He was respectfully asked to bring it to a clean level since the channel was a public channel, and his response wasn't the greatest it could have been. 

In his defense, Nal did not move anyone to the uncensored channel. He does not have those rights. This was done by Fionn, in order to keep the public channel more family friendly. Unfortunately, by using the mass move plug in for TS, he didn't necessarily give regard to those that didn't want to be in the mature channel. To those people, they felt kinda bullied in a way. Maybe next time, just tell the channel "hey, moving to the uncensored channel. If you want to come, move now)". 

Nal was frustrated . Things were not going well for him as a commander. His demeanor displayed this. And this happens at times. But let's bring it back down a notch if someone reminds any of us as commanders that we are starting to create an unfriendly environment. I know that I need this, because my demeanor will motivate or demotivate others, dependingon how I am feeling. We all make mistakes. It's all how we handle them. 

Thanks for the response and consideration,  Phineas. By all means, no one hates Nal or EG over this. But let's all move forward with a tad bit more self awareness... And if in a public channel, a certain level of greater self control and respect. I won't call out a curse word here or there. But there definately is a line where excessive comes into play, as well as disrespect, too. Especially when under pressure. 

Combat Medic Barbie | Mist Walker Barbie | Rigor Mortis Barbie

Guild Leader of Chariot of Fire [FIRE]

Y'all need your potty mouths washed out with soap!

;)

Your friendly neighborhood Smitty here!
Sif Ellisdottir - Gaiscioch [GSCH]
Maelgwyn Gryffud - Gaiscioch [GSCH]

I apologize for the treatment regarding the person who complained about my foul language. I had been experiencing d/c troubles while trying to take a t3 keep and was already frustrated. From now on, I will be commanding in the Swag Channel so there is no confusion for people who log in and are looking for wvw action. Please accept my apologies regarding this issue, I will do my best to adhere to the rules regarding language and channels.

Nal, you are already forgiven.  I think this particular issue is something that was needed in a way...to spark this conversation and set some boundaries.  Boundaries are ok.  At least this way, everyone is on the same page as to what is to be expected in what channels and what not.  In no way do we want to see you NOT command; you are a great commander and I appreciate you out there.  I am sure others feel the same way.  Let's just try to all remember that not all of us come from the same walks of life.  Thank you for your willingness to still participate after this unfortunate drama and working with us.

Combat Medic Barbie | Mist Walker Barbie | Rigor Mortis Barbie

Guild Leader of Chariot of Fire [FIRE]

I think that Nal made the correct choice by changing channel instead of continuing in the channel which everything was started in.

I know it may have annoyed some, however everyone plays for fun. Many people curse and many do not curse. Some may speak in a way which offends others without meaning it. It all depends on the player.

Being unable to speak how someone would normally, may not be fun for those players. (I know I hate being in channels outside of uncensored myself, however I also hate not hearing what commanders say in TS, ,due to the fact I don't want to hold my words while playing a game.)

Weather or not Nal started in uncensored, Nal did switch, which was respectful to those of us who curse and to those who do not. 

Xivor stated, "In his defense, Nal did not move anyone to the uncensored channel. He does not have those rights. This was done by Fionn, in order to keep the public channel more family friendly."

For clarity, I don't know exactly what happened, but I do know that all of a sudden I found myself in the swag channel and I did not move myself there. I made an assumption and we all know what happens then. XD My apologies to Nal for incorrectly assuming he had moved me.

What Xivor suggested is true, "I think it wasn't so much the fact that he cursed as it was the response. Nal did carry a certain level of disregard for the fact that his demeanor was not the cleanest in the public channel." 

Nal stated, "I apologize for the treatment regarding the person who complained about my foul language."

Apology accepted.

I really do understand what happens in games. I've been in charge of a large raiding organization (2,500+ members - players, not alts) in Anarchy Online and have experience dealing with Raid Leaders and Raiders in heated situations. I have been around a lot of language. I make choices at times to be around people anyway. So you will still find me joining EG events. I know what to expect in that situation and I come prepared.

Nal, keep commanding. If frustrations get too high, take a time out. With or without language, it's easy to take out frustrations on people and that doesn't usually end well. Your teammates need to know and feel they are on the same side as you - working together toward the same end.

Phineas stated, "With all due respect, when you ask that language considerations are made, you are commandeering conversation and setting a tone that might conflict with our idea of 'fun.'"

Thank you for your comments. I would agree with you except that to begin the group was in a family friendly channel. In this case, I don't feel that I am commandeering the conversation as much as reminding people where we are and the language agreement inherent in that TS channel. If I came into Swag channel and expected or demanded language be held to family friendly standards, then yes, I would be commandeering the channel. I understand your desire for a place to cut loose.

To all, thank you for thinking and talking about this issue. If we can't bring up things that happen, it's much harder to come into unity and communicate when we need to in order to defend our WvW home ... which is, after all, fun that we all agree upon.

Joulette

At least he apologized for his actions and that's all that matters and yea the language in my opinion should be very clean and even though he did make a big mistake he can fix it I know when I first joined GSCH I made the mistake of saying one tiny cuss word and I apologized and since then I haven't used one cuss word while with them but yes no matter what channel we are in  like the swag channel we should still try to be as calm as possible