Division Among SoR in WvW

I'm not entirely certain of what you seem to be stating. Are you saying GSCH has something to do with it? Or are you using GSCH as an example of a community you'd like to see the WvWers in SOR as?

After rereading my post, I guess I was rather confusing, lol.  Thanks Fog for clarifying some things.  I think acceptance might be the best way of putting it.  

I use GSCH as an example because I recognize their contribution to the community and they are a large mirror of what many of the guilds on the server are like.

Not everyone is a WvW elite, but a lot of people WANT to be a part of WvW.  I know many that have WANT to be a part, but they have a very sour taste in their mouth after experiencing combat with the "elite" and especially after visiting the ZeroDrama TS.  My own wife, after experiencing WvW for the first time with me, joined the TS and just asked for a little help and got the spit flamed out of her for her "noobiness" so to speak.  Instead of helping along a new participant, she was shunned, laughed at, and pushed aside.  And this is NOT the first time I have heard of similar incidents.  This is the style of elite behavior that turns people away from wanting to participate in WvW. Division is created without realizing it. 

I guess I desire more of a community in WvW, where all styles and levels of play respect and accept all other styles and levels of WvW play, and instead of dividing among each other, uniting and growing each other up.

Don't mind me as I vent my frustrations, but I vent because I feel there is a problem and I am offering discussion to possibly not eradicate the division that may be here, but at least close the gap a bit. Like I said, I could be off my rocker, but I am not quite sure that I am.

Combat Medic Barbie | Mist Walker Barbie | Rigor Mortis Barbie

Guild Leader of Chariot of Fire [FIRE]

Well, I feel that my original assessment was closer to being correct than not.  Unfortunately, our "play for fights" ZeroDrama group has mostly decided to leave SoR and move onto other ventures.  ZeroDrama TS does not even exist any longer. That being said, farewell HIRE, Choo, DN, and GC to Tarnished Coast and farewell TW to Sea of Sorrows. And if any other guilds have left or are leaving, I bid you farewell as well. Your hard efforts here have not gone unnoticed, and I appreciate everything you all offered this community while it lasted.

This is a time to restructure ourselves.  We do not need to reinvent the wheel.  We lost a lot of firepower in dedicated tier 1 competitive guilds.  Our server will drop TREMENDOUSLY to the bottom.  But, this is fine by me.  Now, lesser-experienced players can jump into WvW without being antagonized because they are too noobish.  Now, they can learn WvW without the OPTEMPO that a tier 1 server requires. This is a good time for new commanders to come forth and start leading, because right now, we have very few commanders running anything out in our maps.  This is the time for small guild groups to not be afraid to squad up and havoc supply lines and camps.

I came to this server because this server had a purpose.  I learned of the story of OldRoar Rall. I was engaged by what this server was all about.  And though I have mostly sat in the sidelines for the longest time in WvW, I am now throwing myself into the center to do whatever I can to improve this community and its WvW presence.

I know very few people will read this post, but that is ok.  The start to our success in WvW will come from uniting our community together even stronger, and with that hopefully will come more of a presence on this website.  This website and the SoR Community Raidcall should become the standard for server coordination. Like I said from the start, there is no need to reinvent the wheel (and divide our forces again like ZeroDrama/Rallians website did). I for one will start advertising this website in chat, as well as the SoR community Raidcall (ID: 5012) for coordinated events.

Combat Medic Barbie | Mist Walker Barbie | Rigor Mortis Barbie

Guild Leader of Chariot of Fire [FIRE]

Relative to most people here, I believe I am fairly new to this server and especially to this website.  I have read postings on and off for the past 6 months, but now becoming more active.  In terms of expertise, I would consider myself a "veteran noob" since I am a casual player.  While I very much understand your desire for unification and have very much experienced some of the issues you mentioned on ZeroDrama, I must also share that I have learned quite a bit and met some wonderful people on Zerodrama.  There are some who believes in the same things you mentioned.  I chose to follow some of those commanders because they understood my skills and taught me to be a better player.  I also enjoyed their conversations.

I believe that Foghladha brings up a good point.  There are some who will be casual players who enjoy a good fight and there are those who will be elite players that are very competitive.  A unified server is going to require that we accept both groups.  I am very glad you started you havoc group because it fits closer to my skills, preferred conversations, and overall team.  I look forward to it.  However, I don't believe it fits for everyone.  We need both groups, and unification requires acceptance and coordination between the two.  After all, this is why we have guilds on the server.  If unification means we are to be one big group, then we might as well form up on one guild (if it was possible).

I'm just suggesting that we do not "throw out the baby with the bath water."  There are many good people from HIRE, CHOO, and other guilds.  I personally hate to see them go.  I don't think you are suggesting this, especially because you recognized their contributions.  However, I just wanted to share some of the good experiences I had with them and while on Zerodrama TS.  Like you, I want to do what I can to support our community.

BTW, RaidCall does create some degree of division because it doesn't support OSX.  I think I figured out a workaround using Crossover.  Also, I don't know what is going on with Zerodrama TS, but there is another TS server and I saw a few of the guilds like HIRE and CHOO on it.

Thanks for listening....

Soar on wings like EAGLE -- SEagle

I agree, especially about stopping the insults.  I believe this was the intent of Xivor's posting as well.  I just wanted to make sure that we didn't also "insult" individuals as they are lumped into a guild.  Otherwise, we are doing the same for different reasons and eventually reinforcing division.  Again, I don't believe that was anyone's intent in anyone''s posting here.  However, this seemed to have become a sensitive topic and didn't want to leave any room for misinterpretations.

Thanks,

SEagle

Soar on wings like EAGLE -- SEagle

I would like to clarify. PVX guild is not WvW focused guild. Keep that in mind and the bridge between those 2 sides is too wide.

SoR was full of positive experiences, but only a few in GSCH actually cared. Some from GSCH have followed Hel until we left the server and they had a blast, why didnt the rest in GSCH go into WvW as well? The reason GSCH is seen as a PvX or PvE guild is because you are not an organized force in WvW. GSCH was never at WvW reset meetings the last half year, maybe a year? when guilds were divided over the borderlands. Why did GSCH never try and do reset and put out a force in there?

The attitude of the "WvW player" was often used as reason for the big gap and lack of fun in WvW. Surely it's part of it since there's always someone who takes WvW too serious. But you know, it's the attitude from PvX guilds like GSCH that also caused a negative reaction towards pugs. Pugs who didn't want to work together, do their own thing, don't listen to advise or anything and piss against the wind. 

The first league season was a perfect example of how disrespectful the "pug" actually was towards those enjoying WvW. And not to mention karma trains. Each time during the week, lets say a saturday, someone logs into a borderland asking where the karma train was, and big chance that this person repped GSCH or EG.

You can blame this all you want on the real WvW guilds who at times had to stress themselves to offer some resistance to the other servers while you all were throwing in the towel, moaning about the "WvW player" and enjoying your PvE.

I met some of the most friendliest guilds in GW2 in WvW, and it's a shame that most of you now have never had a chance to meet them as well.

The future of SoR would have looked a lot different i think if the "PvX" guilds actually tried to be a part of it all, instead you guys alienated from the real SoR community, and this SoR community has now dissapeared and is no more. But that's how i see it, i'm sure many will see it differently.

Goodluck and stay strong.

Retsu - Helioz [Hel]

From our Homepage:

"The Gaiscíoch (Pronounced: Gosh-Kia) Family began as a social gaming community in the industry pioneering MMORPG Dark Age of Camelot. We began on the Nimue server on November 11th, 2001, with a focus on creating a fun and enjoyable community for players of all ages and skill levels.

With our roots firmly attached in the Celtic Mythological Cycle, the Gaiscíoch hold honor, respect, integrity, and fellowship, over hierarchy and dictatorship. Today the Gaiscíoch family spans many games, sports, and social circles.

We are a social casual gaming community with a relaxed approach toward gaming. We allow our members to play how they want, when they want, as long as they want and do not constrict them with quotas or requirements. It is through gaming, athletic competition, and social interaction that we forge new friendships and relationships.

Our foundation is based on the Casual Gaming lifestyle. Low to No requirements, humorous attitudes, and very laid back gameplay. While we are typically one of the Largest Families in the games we play, we have become this way by leading by example, giving everyone a fair chance to enjoy playing by our side. We do not hold grudges, do not isolate ourselves, do not force people to play a certain way. We simply provide an organized front for everyone in the family and out to enjoy playing by our side.

Family membership is run just like a family. There might come a day when a member may move out, but if they decide that they would like to come back our doors are always open to them so long as they have not violated our only rule. Blades out, not in. Members may not attack another member, verbally, physically, or in any other way. Doing so will lead to banishment from the family. The most important thing you will learn being around us is, If you aren't having fun don't do it. Having fun and building friendships are our focus."

My personal perspective:

     As you can see we try to help everyone from all angles of the community.  We try to provide an atmosphere that is family friendly and fun for everyone.  We strive to let our members play how they want, when they want, however they want.  Our leaders work tremendously hard and try their best to provide fun events and outings and even gifts to the community with the time they are online.  The Great Tyrian Adventure alone runs 4 times per week and provides fun for over 300 community members. 

     From stories I've heard from our leaders, some of the WvW focused guild commanders shunned our representation on the map and so many of our WvW activities ceased and I believe that is probably why you failed to see many of us on the field.  I've heard the same stories from EG's leaders.  Now that most of the WvW focused guilds have moved off and their "elitist" (and I use this lightly because not all commanders were like this)mentalities with them, there will again be a presence of some of the PvX community guilds venturing again into the world of WvW.  We may not be in T1 or T2 again but believe that we will enjoy our time playing together regardless of where we are.

     I salute you for doing what it was you needed to do to keep your guild together and happy.  I thought I needed to shed a little light on things that you may not have noticed that happened from this end.  I wish you all good fun and good health!

-Dharkon

Interestingly put.

I've been a hardcore gamer in the past. Serious crafter and elitist when running content, I was part of one of those WoW guilds, where we'd get into a raid fully geared, and knowing exactly which drops we'd roll on and what our DKP was. If WoW had been a PvP oriented game we'd might have the same kind of compromise to that aspect of the game.

But we were a single guild (even if the early 40-men raid standards made us quite large). What we were not was a community.

In Warhammer I played against GSCH, in another harder-core guild, but still, even though a large guild, we were not a community.

Nowadays, I play more leisurely, both for lack of time, but also because I play several different games with several different friends. SoR/GSCH allows me to play that way. I contribute whenever I can, both with toon-power in events, but mainly by caring to help others in need of orientation.

As a combat healer, When I enter WvW solo, I never care for karma trains, always looking for a commander running a zerg or a smaller dagger group taking smaller objectives. What I don't do is get into whatever TS there is. I've had my share of miscommunicating people in life, and I know I'm not going to change them, and I definitely hope they won't try to change me.

My experience has proven many times I can teach most people what stats to have in gear, which traits to use, which abilities to prioritize in rotations, how to position themselves to get the most out of combo fields and finishers, the mechanics of bosses, fights, and instances, you name it. Still, I won't try to force this knowledge into anyone's throat even if it'll make them perform better. I can suggest, but never demand.

Were we in my old WoW guild, you'd be required to listen to pointers. We were a hardcore guild. SoR/GSCH is a gaming community. And within it there are many guilds. Even harder-core ones (Gosh, we had that plain for all to see in Rift).

Until this previous post, nobody had put the blame on any type of guild or player. It's quite interesting that there's blame to be felt.

It's funny to hear that we were not organized because we were not in on reset nights. Is it all there is to it, reset nights? Have you seen the zergs we have and the dagger teams we assembled?

"Disrespectful pug towards those enjoying WvW"? Does that mean pugs don't enjoy WvW? If ArenaNet wanted GW2 to be a purely WvW game they'd not have included any PvE. Besides, if the game allows you to play the way yo want to (even with different server alliances and guild server transfers purchasing), who is it really that is not respecting the other's style of play?

More than that, many people don't even have the equipment to run WvW at optimal performance. Just to name the most obvious ones, older equipment (low processing and/or video power), no voice comm, higher latency (either by provider limitations or because they live abroad). Sounds disrespectful to me to disregard that these people can contribute the way they can.

As a Community, we also have many older players. Considering I've been playing computer games since the early 80's, I'll soon be one of them, too. And sure as we'll all turn to dust, when your time comes you'll want to be respected as well.

Also, not running WvW outside of GSCH schedule (even though many of us do) can hardly be considered as throwing in the towel. I run what I want with whom I want. And when I'm in WvW I run my best.

Finally, it's clear you misjudge what the SoR Community is. It's a lot more than pure WvW. It's a lot more than one game. And it's a lot more than simple gaming.

As a community, SoR/GSCH welcomes all types of guilds, all types of play, and all types of players, including the serious WvW player.

Can harder-core guilds say the same? Remember I've been part of one. And don't think it's not ok to be in a hardcore guild. It is ok, very ok. As long as you don't want everyone else to play like you do.

The real problem is not respecting differences. That has been a human problem since the dawn of humankind. And we clearly have a long way to go til we overcome this human shortcoming.

And that's why I'll take the community any day.

If soldiers in wars defected "en masse" to the opponent's side at the first sign of difficulty, wars would not have lasted long. Why is it then that soldiers don't defect that way? It's simply because the land they call home will always be home.

And that's why I'll choose SoR/GSCH any day.

I don’t mind if you put me down as someone who insults and disrespects and so on and use me as an example of why the community was divided. I didn’t want to blame anyone, especially guilds in general. But I wanted to point out issues with these guilds (regarding some of their members) to explain why people sometimes could think lowly about them or were negative about them. This as reaction to the reason why people stayed away from WvW. But I’m sure anyone can come up with their own conclusions. Like I said, I’m sure a lot of people might disagree.

Now you say you were asked to stay away until Thursday? I’m not sure if this is really true, but it sounds as the biggest bs ever. If I’d ask Green Arrow, Indo or most commanders on SoR in the past 6 months, and asked them if GSCH or EG were welcome in SoR with reset and such with their own force, they would have said yes. Luckily there were plenty of EG and GSCH members daily in WvW, and they were just as welcome as anyone else.

As for communities. I always regarded the WvW guilds as the SoR community. Something GSCH and EG in general stayed away from. What does SoR have to built on when all WvW guilds are gone? And who is going to fill up this SoR community when GSCH and EG have their own community? (yes, holding events doesn’t mean you suddenly have a wide server community). I might be wrong, but I’m speaking from my own observations.

In my opinion, the only chance SoR has on rebuilding is if all guilds reach out hands to each other and respect what they do and who they are, and most importantly by keeping balance. No supremacy from one guild or hierarchy from a few, sustain freedom and keep interacting with each other.

That's all :)

Retsu - Helioz [Hel]

From what it looks like. The difference on the SoR community is just widening. Retsu they will never understand our point-of-view and we will never understand theirs. The guys PvE/X and WvW have very different communication lines and such never should have even existed. GSCH please think on why all these guilds who left are still quite in tact together and why GSCH and EG are left there. It's not a matter of who is right or wrong now, it rather amusing on why you are still persistent on pointing out that GSCH has done something that we have not seen after the season ended. I know I'm quite rude now but look at the reality. After we have left, there hasn't been anything happening much on SoR but all this chatter in the forums. Don't get me wrong, there is no problem on telling everyone in SoR your point-of-view but please show this in reality, with action, and not just all mere talks for show.

Now you said we have been shunning GSCH and EG away from WvW, we are now gone. It is the right time for you guys to show that you have the will and strength to take this new step forward. Good Luck and hope we will see you in the field someday.

Retsu, that asking of GSCH to stay off the field happened months before Helioz came to SoR. I know - I was part of the GSCH small group force. I joined Helioz after the small group took a break, and that's the six months I was with you guys, so you guys didn't hear any of that story.

Anyway, I miss you guys but SoR has been my home  since day 1 and I have my home guild here that I will be bringing back to the field occasionally when I can.

I don't want to see people taking sides. I have respect for Helioz and for Gaiscioch  both and I don't want to see either one tainted in a bad light (in all the time I played with Helioz this is the first time I've heard such negative talk Retsu so you seem to be a little out of line with representing them properly btw). I know for a fact this is not why Hel left SoR. They just want to hunt the zergs - that's it - nothing else - no hard feelings. I don't think anyone else there feels the way you do.

Sure we all grumbled about the achievement hunters that only came to WvW to get Season One achievements and clogged up the queues, but you really can not blame that on GSCH or EG, and doing so only makes you look bad.

We all know there's going to be sour apple members that don't reflect the leadership in any and every group. I've proudly spent months in both guilds and endorse both as good, positive guilds, where the leaders actively ask members to not badmouth others.

Cheers all.

LT

Regarding the different styles of play from wvw/pvx/pve guildes, it always exists regardless which server they are on.  I have seen it.  It is just how cmd or servers deal with it.  Wvw ppl are called elites, while pvx/pve ppl are maybe called pugs or pvers (indicating how ppl call it, no offence). This is caused by different mindsets.  Wvw ppl may force ppl to use specific states, gears or builds, while other side don't. In wvw, it is just cruely true that certain builds do does better, not getting yourself killed easily.  Thus, pvx ppl (maybe) feel frustrated when they got killed, while wvw ppl feel frustrated too when they see pvx ppl got killed and rally enemies.  This is when wvw ppl discourage pvx ppl or encourage ppl to use certain builds.  Also, this is when pvx ppl feel offended when they are blamed.  From my point of view, there is really no right or wrong about both sides, just ppl have different mindsets which conflicts a bit.  The only workaround I have seen is cmd make use of pugs to die first and to waste enemy skills, so they can make 2nd wave of attack to win.  I don't like this as it looks sneaky and wrong to do.  Besides this, I haven't seen harmony between both sides. The truth is basically wvw hardcore don't coexist with pvx/pve.  It is true within guilds (I have seen guild falling apart as they have pve/wvw hardcore ppl at the same time, trying to please both sides), and also true within servers.  Still I can't think of any workaround.  The only thing i am sure it is true wheverever, whenever we are:  Be nice to ppl, and respect ppl.  I must say SOR is the only server I do like from my heart when I first transfered in, running in wvw or pve, and still hope we can rebuild it back to that. I feel most of us are really nice and willing to help each other.  Let's keep that way.

Karma train came into my mind now. I heard wvw ppl hate karma train. Actually there is a good way to deal with it.  Wvw ppl can arrnage  a karma train night on Friday before reset (as we can't do much about wvw win/loss then).  This way, ppl get what they want, and we can train cmd what to do/how to cmd, or to tell pvx ppl how to run wvw more pleasant (or we can say more like how wvw ppl hope them to cooperate in other more searious wvw nights).

At last, I apology if anyone feel offended, which I don't mean it.

» Edited on: 2014-02-24 01:18:16

» Edited on: 2014-02-24 01:52:13

I think the bottom line is WvW was not designed to be played like Spvp.  If it were, Anet would have provided yet another set of (separate from PvE) trait and gear setups.  The problem here we have is Hardcore WvW players/guilds sometimes want to dictate to others how they should be required to play in WvW.   And in turn, being that Anet has designed WvWvW to be played alongside the PvE spectrum, people come in to WvW with different builds than are expected from hardcore WvW folks.  WvW players live, eat, and sleep WvW pvp, but PvX folks do not.  They have more things in the game that make them happy.  They venture into WvW to help out and enjoy themselves.  You can not expect people to automatically walk into WvW and know the best builds to survive in what you're currently doing.  Sure if you're zerging blobs the best loadouts are going to be survivability, but most PvE builds shun that notion of survivability, currently.

Perhaps Anet just needs to build a set of Tournament WvW that behaves like the current Spvp matches do to satisfy the community who enjoy playing hardcore style WvW.

-Dharkon

Personally, as much as I hate this conversation, I'm also glad it's happening.  I think it shows a drive for community.  Yes, there are differences between PVE and WvW.  So, the question is why force the community to play one way?  If we recognize that the play style is different, then why cannot it co-exist.  I understand that the serious WvW would prefer all players to participate in their specific strategy.  However, if the PVE group doesn't like it then, their non-existence on WvW is just as detrimental.  I know that PVE people can be overwhelmed by the language and strategy of the WvW group and eventually feel it is not worth it.  If so, then choose not to follow those commanders.  There are other commanders who will take time to train and assist.  Or start a havoc group to learn together.  

I think the issue is as Fog said earlier is to accept both with respect.  It is the intolerance of the other, and more importantly the insults that drives division.  Instead of forcing a strategy of one play style, why not build a strategy that incorporates both?  More importantly, let's just be civil about it.  Kind of reminds me of the American Revolutionary War between the military forces and militia.  Both are necessary.

At the end of the day, xivor also reminded us that this is also a game (not actual war).  Take it away, and we are left to our civility to one another... our community.

Now that the differences are raised, can we put it behind us and complete our rebuilding with a strategy that incorporates both?

Sorry for my rant.

Soar on wings like EAGLE -- SEagle

Nonvo,

please explain your point of view.

My point of view is simple. DO give considerable recognition to the guilds holding down the world v world maps. I can say that us moving as a guild is brought to an early problem which is called burning out. If the non-hardcore guilds in SoR think that the hardcore guilds are shoo-ing them away or verbally abusing them in WvW that is a general view.

After leagues ended the community just doesn't show up anymore. Been running in WvW for so long and I only see the main guilds. Timezone is not a matter since I randomly get on all timezones on different days. The main reason of why the guilds left SoR is because SoR left us alone in WvW.

You may think that we are telling you guys to get off WvW for the reason that you are using a lowbie. I believe that is a reason. Commanders would tell you could you swap to a lvl 80 and its simply because we are outmanned and have no time to res the people who down so fast. Ungear and underleveled still has a huge disadvantage against a lvl 80 including their massive size it shouldn't even be said.

Guild branding, WvW is a place to fight other servers and win for your server either in fights or PPT. It is not a place to ask for karma farming. A guild is defined by its players/members. In the past months, we have seen and labeled PD as a good scout guild this is due to its members doing all the scouting. It is bad. Scouting is everyone's job which also includes refreshing the siege. Personally, I have encountered some guilds even if they are small are able to do a lot of work in WvW while some big one are not able to do work well. These WvW guilds respect the SoR PvX guilds such as EG this is why we follow them doing world challenges and that is nice.

As we all know experience is something that you earn with time. You can't go in WvW and just suddenly say you are a good wvw guild, you just don't. Some guilds have been running WvW since the start and still had not stopped. Newer guilds that come in WvW at least try to follow or listen to those guilds because have experience and know what is going to happen next.

Thus it has come into conclusion that a clear separation between PvX guilds and WvW guild has arose. You can understand this difference in direct combat where some of hardcore guilds would rather run separate because newer guilds tend to rally the enemy. These hardcore guilds help the newer players adapt to the aggressiveness of a t1 problem as well all know, blobbing. We commanders would love to run tagged up and want you guys to follow for the reason that you will listen and at least try to understand why we ask stuff from you such as not using full glass builds. You may have even seen it happen where a 20man wvw guild could wipe out an entire 60man random group.

I have seen a lot of hate talks about the guilds that left but a lot has not heard from their side. Let me also point out that these stuff that you hear such as taking money from warchest to tranfer is a total bs. The guys who made this warchest are also the donaters. This warchest is due to WvW guilds coordinating with each other and for their own uses to help the server. Hope this is clarified.

The guilds leaders who chose to move together is also because we have all been working together and have established a very nice relation thus we all want to go where our friends go. Think of why only a few guilds are left in SoR and why most of us moved together.

If you still think that we left SoR you are totally misguided. This is my point-of-view. And being frank here, with no guilds related just myself, GSCH I have not seen you WvW in months, so quit talking and show it all, man up and carry SoR to where you will be able to reach. Again my point-of-view no others included.

I think the credit and recognition deserved by the WvW elite is pretty much self-evident. After they left, SoR has been in free fall in WvW with no signs of putting up even token resistance to Tier 2 servers. We aren't going to stop in Tier 3 either, nor likely in Tier 4 given stated current plans don't involve even working up until April due to scheduling. I don't think anyone here will disagree that in terms of rankings and effectiveness on both strategic and tactical levels, the hardcore WvW guilds were the foundation of SoR's success in WvW and they pulled much more than their weight. From that perspective, they can live without us, but we can't live without them - any server they join is likely to rise in the rankings whereas we cannot take objectives or hold ground against any of our recent opponents without them.

Let's be brutally honest here, the hardcore WvW folks take pride in our ranking and worked their butts off around the clock to keep us there at cost. I mean I've tagged along with some of them before and a lot of them are downright impoverished when you consider GSCH pretty much throws massive orange and purple gifts left and right for no more than a couple hours a week. For a brief time me and a friend ran with one of the medium sized WvW guilds. This was near the tail end of our Tier 1 tenure because I'd heard they were trying out new tactics and the fact that we were losing after winning so much piqued my interest; I wanted to see if I could be part of turning things around. It was an interesting experience to say the least. These folks aren't elite because they say they are. They aren't there because they have numbers, speak in jargon and demand you do things their way. They trained almost every day at maneuvers and theorycrafted builds and tactics in order to counter the numerical advantage JQ and BG had through assymetric tactics. They tried to get everyone sorted with an extra weapon with stacking sigil so that they could stack and then switch, just for that little edge, and their operating budget for that was like...probably less than what GSCH throws away as gifts every week for fun.

Fundamentally, hardcore WvWers are frustrated that we don't want to win. Their methods are more effective and their capabilities are superior. That's a no-brainer. If you take professional boxer who trains daily against a high school student who does it every other weekend, the result is a foregone conclusion. There's limited space, time and resources in WvW and their way of putting them to use is blatantly superior. So why don't we play and train like they do? Why, they wonder, do we not want to win? At the same time, the WvWers don't realize how unwelcoming this attitude comes across nor do they seem able to grasp the reality that so long as they are on SoR, the player base in the WvW areas will never be fully hardcore nor that their idea of a decent casual player is way off from reality. As a result they have attempt the impossible of fielding an entirely elite force made of only people who want to win and have not worked towards understanding how to put the to good use the people who don't want to win.

"Oh, but we do want to win," you might say. But that isn't true – we don't want to win nearly as much as they do; we aren't stepping out of our comfort zones to do it. And that's fine, but the sooner we acknowledge it, the better.

On the other hand, you might say "I don't care if we never win, I just want to have fun." But seriously now, is that actually true? Would we really actually be content dropping to rank 24 or whatever is down there, have everyone do their own thing and just losing constantly? Would any significant number of people really have fun doing that?

At this point, most of our firepower has left the server. Sanctum of Rall is now in free fall. We don't have the forces and we don't have anyone capable of wielding it even if we did. Because if the elites have left, that's more or less ended the division. We're all on the same boat now. The question is what our comfort zone is. If we want to win, we have to retain experience and talent. That means making concessions. If we don't, then we fall until we reach an equilibrium.

Either way, we should start instead talking about strategy. (I figure since this is like the end of days, I should buy myself a commander tag like any idiot can!) If SoR ever had a hope of fielding a purely professional force, it's gone now. We've fallen decisively onto the musket side of the musket vs longbowmen equation. Any hardcore WvW guilds that choose to stay will have to work with that reality – that the bulk of our numbers will be casual or at least less experienced WvWers and it's likely that many commanders will have that background as well. That will probably mean simplifying the battles as much as possible and if you want unified builds, you can just about forget it. A few simple rules and guidelines and nothing else, emphasis on easy, simple communication, spamming [map] with the raidcall (forget security) and very gradually easing into more advanced requirements.

You have an interesting point of view and seem to know how everyone "Really" feels about how they play the game.  You also seem to have a firm grip on what things are going to be like in our future.  How much did that crystal ball cost you ?  And you might want to fire your historian.

A few things I haven't seen that you apparently have is some sort of slander against guilds who left, outside of the justified complaint of the mistreatment of non-elite WvW participants.  Anything I've seen have been as positive as you could imagine they would be.  Farewell wishes and the sort.  In any community there are always going to be a couple of outspoken people who feel like they've been cheated somehow, but I think it's been pretty minimal.

Concerning SoR's former "WvW Elite" guilds.  I'm sure everyone appreciated them for what they were doing out there.  But lets be brutally honest here.  SoR didn't belong in T1 anymore.  You justified that by saying we were constantly outnumbered and were being forced to do more with less.  That created frustration for those who were in WvW everyday and thats what led to the mentality that casual players were not welcome: mostly because they didn't have the gear and builds required to operate in the tier that the "elite" guys were holding us in.  Lets not paint a picture that those guilds were doing what they were doing as servitude to SoR as a server.  These guys play wvw because that's how they enjoy the game most, and as most elitist folks are, they have fun when they win.  They have less desire to play PvE content, and as someone said many of the elite players in wvw would tag along with PvX guilds who knew what they were doing to reap the benefits.  Sounds like a tradeoff to me. 

As far as the need to win all the time, I seriously don't think everyone feels they have to win.  It's nice to win sometimes, but I think most folks play the game for enjoyment.  I, personally, would rather be able to go out into WvW with small groups of friends and enjoy taking parts of the map without looking over your shoulder nearly every time you turn around to see a 50+ man screaming demon running into you.  Having a force come at you that is somewhat similar in size would be ideal.  That's pretty much what T1 has evolved into aside from roamers who tap things to distract the enemy zergs.  I feel like, again personally, that the game of WvW is more fun when you're not on top.  Once you're on top and you dominate everyone else, you'll notice people start losing interest and peeling off.  That's precisely what happened to SoR that lead us into the hard times we had before seasons even.  We were understaffed and didn't belong in T1 any longer.

I don't blame the guilds for leaving that did.  They had to do what they needed to to keep their members satisfied.  Those members wanted to return to an atmosphere where they could compete for the top spot again.  It's not anybody's fault that we couldn't draw more people to SoR to fill the space of the other guilds who stopped playing or left prior to this mass exodus.  Everyone needs to play the game however is most fun for them.  Its a huge circle competing for the top placement and hardcore wvwer's will forever be changing servers to stay in that tier.  If you feel like you need to be competing for the top spot, maybe you need to follow the rest of the SoR guilds who left because I don't see SoR coming back to T1, at least not in the forseeable future.  Nobody knows for sure where we will end up, but I'm confident it'll be in a place that the server belongs as a whole.

As far as where we go from here, we have meetings scheduled to discuss these things.  Currently the field is scarce, but there are people out there running together doing things and taking objectives.  I can only say that in T2 our coverage isn't sufficient to stay here, and we will surely move down to T3 soon.  We will have to see where we sit in T3 when we get there.  We now have a TS server that is posted numerous times all over this website and as far as I know you cannot be verified as a user unless you're checked in a WvW map.  I'm not sure where you were going with the Raidcall thing, but if it has anything to do with me spamming the Raidcall ID in all the battle maps and in Gfields for the meeting we had last week: it was to get the message out to as many people as possible who have any care about WvW for SoR.  As is apparent, our Server WvW VoIP is Teamspeak, so I don't think any securities were compromised.  In a roundabout way, we have some of the same views about the server but different ways that it got here.

» Edited on: 2014-02-25 06:12:50

» Edited on: 2014-02-25 06:14:57

» Edited on: 2014-02-25 06:20:32

-Dharkon

I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused (which isn't saying much as I am easily confused). Are non-hardcore WvWers being blamed for being in WvW too much or not being in WvW enough? Or both?

If it's both, it does make it most difficult to come up with a sound defense.

Well yes, staying in Tier 1 really requires that a large number of people get aboard on the same page with the same great amount of discipline. We didn't have enough people who wanted to win to compete at Tier 1 and because of this, our WvW Elite have departed and now we're dropping hard. My crystal ball is indeed saying that we will drop a lot but I guess if you say you disagree there's not much I have to back it up except my personal feeling from the past few weeks that we're getting destroyed by a huge margin out there. Maybe I have a different perspective because I'm one of the guys on the sidelines. I don't have a big guild name to throw around so I'm more or less a constituent of the server dependent on the big guilds to keep the trains running. I haven't contributed much I guess (besides doing my part teaching dungeons whenever I run into new folks and yelling heady catchphrases during fights) but I can't shake the feeling of being a little bit miffed that the leadership of the two camps couldn't get things sorted. I don't feel like I really need to compete for the top spot but I do feel like it'd be great if we halted the free fall as soon as possible. If every time we drop a tier the response is going to be "maybe you need to follow the rest of the SoR guilds who left" then I think I know where our division is.

I don't think Dharkon was saying, "Get out!". I believe that he meant that, if your goals as a player are to be in the top tiers, fighting for the #1 spot. Then for the time being another server would be able to help you achieve those goals in a more expedient manner. 

Yeah, I feel like you took a lot of what I wrote out of context.  For starters, everyone here is on equal footing. Everyone has their own opinions on things.  My opinion is that everyone should be free to play however gives them the most enjoyment.  Yes, we're free-falling through the tiers of WvW, and it's to be expected when you lose 90% of the people who play WvW consistently.  It'll stop whenever we get to a spot that our coverage allows us to compete, but its anyone's guess how long that will take.  We just have to be patient.  I feel like it would be a foolish idea to try and force everyone who doesn't normally wvw often to stop everything and start wvwing hardcore, because it will only balloon the effect that when people burn out, it'll fall some more and people will get disheartened all over again.

To answer your question Bharel, I think both.  Many of folks who did not compete on a daily basis and who didn't have the gear/builds to support T1 were shunned from participating in WvW.  At the same time, those same folks were also accused of not coming to WvW to help with the coverage.  Kindof a catch 22 where pretty much the WvW hardcore crowd cut their own throats without realizing what was happening.  There was just simply a shortage of players who did nothing but WvW with most of their time.  Now, I will say that not all commanders were hateful, only some.  But it doesn't take many bad ones to ruin it for everyone.

-Dharkon

EDIT: Nevermind, forget I said anything.

I should add that I'm not concerned at all about voice security. I think spamming Raidcall on map is a *good* thing and was also particularly surprised when it turned out we had a hidden WvW forum all along and it was just barred for most people. Obviously if we stick with the old practice of confirmed-members TS that's worked in the past although every hurdle will hurt adoption of voice.

Yeah, about the secret access part of the website:  Fog was asked to lock the WvW section of the website because some of the commanders wanted it to be secure.  Problem was that not enough people (if anyone) promoted the site or the password so people never knew it existed.  If you care to read, it's detailed in this link.  I plan on trying to promote this website to more zones in the game in hopes of drawing our community together more than it is now.  Any help in doing this would be graciously appreciated, and the more people we get here the more events we'll hopefully see pop up on the calendar.

-Dharkon

Well was going to type out a long winded reply,fog seemed to touch on most of what i was going to say.

However

"GSCH I have not seen you WvW in months, so quit talking and show it all, man up and carry SoR to where you will be able to reach."

Just because you didn't see it ,doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Good luck and have fun on your new server.

I am not on SOR long enough to understand stuff between guilds, but I do understand what nonvo said, which is the frustration wvw ppl feel.  That is also why I moved to SOR from DB. 

I play around 6-9am server time mostly, and there were no more than 10 ppl on SOR bl the other night.  It is like desert and demoralise ppl. Still, we took everything wihtout resistance (boring but good) before SOS coming in map to take their part back. I spent most gold on me to upgrade even though I didn't think we have ppl to hold.  When I log off, it was like 5 ppl on the map, stilling trying to upgrade and hold. What I can say is either pvd or run without support/ppl are both boring.  I don't mind being killed, but being killed by large number isn't fun too. 

I do understand ppl would like to play their build/way, but it is also true some basic things need to be followed to have fun. For example, if one is fully glassy and got killed so often, that one may be mad and won't come in wvw again.  I personally can't help to try to res ppl even if enemies are still attacking.  That usually ends up I am dead, which I don't really regret or mind. But if I am the only one still standing, that freaks me out as I can't res all. My friends told me not to do that, but I still do res ppl when I can as that is my style.

After moving servers 3 times and seeing all the drama/droping of servers, I realise it is just a loop that always happen.  Moving doesn't end it. Plus I loved SOR as it was.  People are the most friendlyl I have met, and the cooperation is the best I have seen in wvw.  It is really a waste to give it up. Thus, I don't really fancy to move again and sincerely hope we can build SOR back.   So, please come out to play and help each other.  Wvw ppl helps pvx ppl to get karmas, loot bag.. etc. Pvx ppl help wvw ppl to fight, defend, scout or not drop to where there is no enemy to fight. (Actually we did win the other night when it is not 3 vs 15). And let's not drop further.

» Edited on: 2014-02-25 19:23:05

wayne,

no body is giving up.keep in mind people do enjoy other parts of the game.

as far as dropping,that all depends on coverage and maybe out of our control.

all i can say is,we will continue to fight as best we can,as much as we can,but most important

lets have fun trying!

Kavor, sorry I wasn't clear.  I meant it is a waste to give up the great community we had, so I sincerely hope we can build it back.

I used to be wvw hardcore before my friends left, and can't deny that I couldn't help to urge ppl to work harder.  :P

I'll try to be more relax (actually I find it interestingn to explore LA now).

Benjamin, I am impressive about GSCH family and envy too  :).   You guys can be friends in real life and in game.  I thought about join, but I am in Taiwan :( .  This is the first and only game I play, and from what I have learned is only care about who cares about you, let go the others.  If you can hold this big family for long, there must be something amazing inside you.

I haven't been able to run with you due to time difference, and only play 1 or 2 hr per day. But I'll try to catch you :P.

I personally don't have patience for pve, usually leaving in 20 min. That is bad as I don't make gold. Yet, the new LA event is interesting basically because the animation and exploring is great, like sight-seeing.

PS.  I share this account with my husband.  I only play mesmer and actually am a girl.  :)

I usually play 6-9am server time, not sure which time zone it is, but it is late toward midnight in taiwan.

yeah, I think I play in a weird time zone.  Late night cats for asian, and really early birds for US.

We are in 7th... Looks like no one is playing anymore or cares...

It's because failure breeds more failure. It's the nature of beast when it comes to morale. Which is why I'm here raging on about things because it's not like just any mid-sized group on the server can stop the slide.

I pay a lot for my crystal kitten and historians.

There's one thing I think people are overlooking in being hit with this large exodus. And that is... Why did those guilds pick Sanctum of Rall in the first place? We were the 17th ranked server when the large influx of WvW guilds arrived. Did they think it would be easier to take a server with that low a ranking to T1, rather than one towards the top? We didn't have a huge population compared to many other servers, so I don't think that was it. Could it have been the server name? From being in Gaiscioch, I've had the chance to hear people who knew 'Oldroar' Rall tell stories and relate just how awesome a guy he was. So, I'd like to think the name inspired their choice a bit.

But, I think some of the big reasons that Sanctum of Rall was picked is that we had a reputation of being tenacious, treating people with respect (allies and enemies alike), having fun and trying completely unconventional strategies and tactics. Basically, early on we were known as being an extremely fun server to fight against. My memory might be fuzzy (I am old after all), but I remember several posts on the official forums from other servers saying those types of things about us and how they enjoyed our matches.

We are going to have to endure a temporary rough patch. But if we stick to those initial things that originally got SoR noticed, qualities this community still has.  I know we'll be ok. Back in the beginning we had people and guilds transferring here for the community, not because of some arbitrary number (or the perceived potential to reach that number).

So be respectful, fight like mad, try weird stuff and HAVE FUN! We'll get through this together.

-I know that losing a bunch isn't fun, but if you can make your opponent look like a complete doofus even though they win. They'll be the ones grumbling, while you whistle a jaunty little tune as you respawn.  Fun is where you find it.

Good hunting

» Edited on: 2014-02-27 21:35:49

» Edited on: 2014-02-28 06:15:01

The guilds on SoR were perfectly content with "being in 17th place".  Then some "hardcore WvW" guilds decided to move here and said, "we're taking this server to Tier 1".  

Ok... ?

Its like someone walking into your house and telling you that your decorating sucks.  Without asking you what you want to change, or what color you want on the walls, they start knocking holes in your walls, move your furniture around, bring in paint cans and say "Trust us, we'll make it better because you want this. Just stay out of our way and let us work."

As time passes, they start to get fatigued from trying to do all the work themselves, and walk over to where your sitting and ask you, "Why are you not helping us, this is our house and you're doing nothing to help us make our house the best house on the block?  You have this huge family with all of these people just sitting here watching us work our butts off!"

They then decide to leave that house and move to a different house on another block, because the original family that lives in the current house is "not being supportive" of their efforts.  So they leave, with holes in walls, doors knocked out and unfinished, furniture and trash scattered everywhere and half painted walls... of a color that they never even liked.

The original family has a right to be pissed, because these people came in to their home, uninvited, decided to change things without asking if it was OK, then left because the job didn't work out exactly like they wanted.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a perfect example of the "entitled player" mentality that plagues modern gaming communities.  "We did all the work, but we got no support so we weren't having fun.  We expected everyone else to bend over backwards and change the way they enjoy playing their game, so that we can have our fun.  They're all selfish and refused to change how they play, so they're not supporting us and are lying about wanting to be a gaming community!  We're not respected here, so we're leaving!"

So my question to these "hardcore" guilds is:  How is that mentality working out for you?  You're not having fun, but everyone else seems to be, so I'm going to guess that the problem isn't the rest of the server... its your attitude and expectations.

You're not going to find your happy place, on any server, until you realize that its YOU that needs to change.  

Sadly, you all apparently haven't learned this, after the first few server transfers that you've tried, so I expect that once you run out of servers here in GW2, you'll hop over to the next new game that offers similar PVP content, then jump servers there... and repeat the cycle endlessly.

I'd wish you guys the best of luck, but you don't need luck.  You need to buy a vowel.

We also have the "Bandwagon guilds" of whom, for whatever reason, are not happy on their current server, so decide to sniff around and find out "where the action is", then move there to ride the coattails to the top.

They're the sidewalk passerbys, who walk past the house, notice that something is going on in there, so they poke their heads in, see all the work being done and decide to come on in and join in on the fun!

They have no idea of who is who in the house, who lives there, why the house is there, or really what work is being done.  Its just an improvement over what they had at their house and its work that they like to do, so they jump on in.

After a while, they notice that there's one group working really hard, knocking out walls and painting, while the rest are sitting off in the living room, talking, chatting, eating, watching TV, playing games, and other fun stuff.  They ask the workers what's up and are told, "oh those are just noobs and leeches, they won't help us or care about our work".

So these new passerby folks develop negative opinions against the house's original family because they're told a one-sided story and don't bother to go find out the truth of what's really going on.  Why?  They're having fun and just don't really care at this time.

Then... the workers get mad, start arguing with each other and the family sitting on the couch, some threaten to leave and the passerbys decide that they need to be the moderator, but they side with the workers because that's who've they've spent all of their time with and who they've gotten to know the best.  (completely clueless that the workers are actually just squatters who moved in, uninvited)

Well, you know how this little example ends.  On one hand, the bandwagon guilds are also victims, but on the other hand, its their own fault because they chose to trust, believe and side with the wrong group of players.

So the point of my posts, is that its not GSCH's fault, its not EG's fault and its not "the rest of the server's" fault that we're dropping down in Tiers.  We've never changed how we play the game, because its how we enjoy playing the game and there's been no reason or desire to change.  Why should we?  People can't move into a new community and start demanding and expecting changes to fit what they want.  

You have to adapt to the existing conditions that the original community has created, or yes... you are going to have some serious problems getting along with your new community.  Its not rocket science, but it is social science... which seems to be something that eludes a lot of gamers.

So after all the dust settles in a couple of weeks, this is all that matters to us remaining on Sanctum of Rall:

We're still having fun and we'll continue to have fun, because nothing has changed for us.

We are moving back to normal.

Actually what happens recently makes me to rethink about wvw.  I was wvw hardcore ppl.  No enemies to fight/pvd is boring.  Being wiped always by blob is not fun.  Trying to defend/cap, strateges, open fights are fun for me.  Now we barely have ppl in wvw during the time I play.  After reading some posts in this forum and other forums, I am thinking if there is any other perspective toward wvw play mode.  What is consider fun for pve/pvx ppl in wvw?  What do they like to do in wvw?  Why do they think that way?  Why don't they like the way hardcore ppl play (if they don't)?  I think there must be some things I don't understand and need to be inspired, so it is possible to change my mindset and have fun as other ppl do.  The disagreement between wvw/pve/pvx ppl isn't really that negative to me.  It opens up my mind to think about the other side of view.  Can some ones give me some insights?

I totally agree with Bharel.  I moved from DB to SOR, and I must say SOR is the best and most friendly server, either in wvw or as a whole server.  I do love you guys. And that is why I need inspirations, so I can play wvw with fun as you do. Please help me with that.

Hi WayNe!

If you can sneak in a late night on a Monday or a Friday, Gaiscioch runs a small unit WvW event on those days at 9am server time. You'll find a fun, friendly group out to be a pain in the backside of our enemies and I'm sure they would welcome another in the group.

Also, for a short while you may have to become a teacher and gather people that are online during the same time you are, but aren't WvWing for whatever reason. Then take them into WvW and show them what you have learned and how much fun WvW can be. We've seen here in Gaiscioch, people who stayed away from all types of PvP in any other game, become very, very enthusiastic WvWers when they learned the basics and that it can be so much fun. A lot of people also have a negative opinion of WvW after trying it once and being cussed out because they took supply from a tower or any other newbie mistake.  Show them how things fit together and some basic strategies and tactics, and you may have just created the next star commander for SoR!

Once you understand the basics of WvW, that's when it drags you in. You start thinking about neat places to put arrow carts or what different weapon sets might work or different routes you can take to areas on the map or... you get the idea.

People just need a little encouragement and helping get people out that are already on this server will be the best option to increase our WvW presence. If people are having fun they'll come out. WvW isn't a job or real war, it's supposed to be fun and as a server we can make it that way for everyone.

» Edited on: 2014-02-28 10:57:17

Bharel, I just joined GSCH and played with Aingeal (if i remember right) before I read your post !

This reminds me why I love wvw.  The fun is to play, interact and friend with ppl.

I do notice we have more new ppl in wvw, which is good.  I can be helpful when it is needed and explain when I know.

I'll be talky (if ppl don't mind) and try to get ppl on ts.  The only thing I can't really help is siege placement for defending and open field fight.  we need good cmd for those.

Welcome to Gaiscioch, WayNe! Now you'll get to see what I was talking about firsthand. Our events (and heck, our members themselves) try to be inclusive, educational and most of all FUN for everyone. The elders here put in a crazy amount of time making sure that GSCH members, along with the greater SoR community, have an enjoyable time while they are here.

Glad to see the community coming together!  The tide of the storm is starting to simmer down for us, and all those that left for greener pastures will soon find out how green the grass is on the other side.  Glad to still be amongst you all here, and I look forward to pushing on forward to success with you all!

Combat Medic Barbie | Mist Walker Barbie | Rigor Mortis Barbie

Guild Leader of Chariot of Fire [FIRE]

"Glad to see the community coming together!"

Me too! :)

The grass may or may not be greener on the other side. Luckily we know how the grass is here and can actually heal the field of its wounds.

I figured I should "necro" this post because a lot of the comments touch on something I just experienced.

I've been a PVE player pretty much all my MMO career. I hated PVP because the only experience I've had with it has been "arena" style, ganking, and FPS games whose learning curves are more like jagged, 90 degree cliff-faces covered in angry bees and broken glass. The communities are often horrible because it favors folks who can hurt others on an emotional level as well as a gameplay level, and all this means is the only people who stick around are the ones who have learned to take the insults and trash talking by dishing it back out. It's a vicious cycle.

So because of this, I stayed away from WvW. I figured it was just like the other kinds of PVP I experienced: A game of rock-paper-scissors almost impossible for a newbie to penetrate, with the loser being subjected to insults and juvenile teasing. It was daunting to even attempt to break into it. There was probably so much stuff going on and so much to learn, how was I supposed to contribute anything meaningful? I'd just get in the way. I'll stick with my PVE, where everything makes sense.

But then I joined Aingeal's WvW training event this evening, and I realized that WvW was a ton of fun! It was this refreshing change of pace that was a lot easier to wrap my head around than most of the PVE stuff had been, and Aingeal and the other experienced players (I'm sorry I don't remember your names specifically!) explained it and ran it in such a friendly way (despite so many people taking supplies when they shouldn't have been...) that after an hour or two, I had a ton of confidence! Instead of shying away and staying quiet when someone asks to back up folks in the "SOR BL", I can't wait to jump in!

I just wanted to say: There are a lot like me out there. We don't care if we're the top ranking or whatever. We just want to be a part of a community that's friendly and comfortable, and that's definitely what SoR is, and it's definitely something Gaiscioch helped create. Coming from so many hostile, unfriendly game communities, it feels great to have a server I can actually recommend.

Ceol, glad to hear you like wvw now. I surely support the idea to be nice and friendly to ppl (well, if they are nice and friendly to me  :P  ).  We need some help in late SEA starting 7am server time too, if you happen to be online then.

Ceol - It is addicting isn't it? It gets so that you start spending all your time in there looking for groups to hang out with.

There is a lot of mention of Gaiscioch here but there are many other guilds on SoR that are striving just as hard to rebuild the community. The Ethereal Guardians are a major contributor and their PvE events are a blast to join. Look around and take notice of even the small groups that are striving to make the server we play on a better place. Come in here and post in these forums of a great experience you had with a group, get their name out and recognize their efforts.

EDIT: When I posted 'rebuild the community' I really meant 'rebuild the WvW community and the overall perception of the community on Rall's Sanctum.' The community PvE-wise is stronger than ever (indeed no more hardcore WvW players trolling the PvE crowd) and does not need any sort of rebuilding (which I think seemed that way mentioning EG's events, I just wanted to acknowledge them because I have enjoyed them quite a bit).

I would like to shout out to all the other guilds here, as well.  When I initially made this post, I had very little interaction with many other guilds on SoR on a regular basis, so the one that stood out was GSCH.  While they have definitely had their share of community building through the Tyrian Great Adventure, the forming of this website, the naming of the server, and other things, I cannot take away from the fact that there are MANY other pillars that have worked very diligently to hold up this server.  I have definitely taken notice of the community involvement of [EG], [shdw], [KILL], and many of the smaller guilds since I originally made this post.  And, as the WvW community has been rebuilding, there has been a LOT more "other guilds" that have been given the opportunity to shine in their involvement in WvW.  I have seen [MiLk] out there, which i rarely seen before, [ZERO], [HALO], [NICE], [LOE], and many more.  

I will definitely give credit where it is due.  [GSCH] has done awesome, and I respect them.  But I respect the rest of you that have had your hands in this community as well.  And I am so glad to see the intra-guild activity...not just in WvW, but even in PvE as well!  I look forward to my guild(s) hopefully teaming up together in some community events with others on SoR for large-scale events in the future!  Teq, Wurm, etc!

If we maintain a friendly gaming environment where elitism and trolling is kept to a minimum, and acceptance and social activity is at a high point, people will WANT to join our server.  Let this be the calling card for recruiting SEA/OCX WvW members. HARDCORE/ELITE often creates division, unfortunately.  COMMUNITY/SOCIAL/FRIENDLY creates unity!

Combat Medic Barbie | Mist Walker Barbie | Rigor Mortis Barbie

Guild Leader of Chariot of Fire [FIRE]

@WayNe: As long as I can get my butt up that early, I'll definitely help out. :) I've been meaning to fool around with roaming as a D/D ele.

@Kalla: I pretty much got addicted to it, especially when I can see myself getting better at making the enemy angry (staff ele!) as well as supporting our team. I love playing support jobs in games, so this is a blast. And I hope my post didn't come across as to imply GSCH is the only one. My apologies for not mentioning the other guilds. I've seen the EG tag around, especially for the Great Jungle Wurm, and they've always been nice. The members of ZERO and ECTO I've seen as well. In fact, I've never had a negative experience with any of the guilds on the server, and I have no doubt it's due to the work of all of them!

I gotta say, Last nights reset was awesome!! So many people showed up! I've been around in WvW since day one of release and let me tell you this server still has something that no other server has! I was SO disappointed when I learned that our major guilds left...they were like family (I don't hold nothing against them) they needed to take their own path just like us! But now after seeing was everyone here come together, and step up (not just in WvW) but in PvE as well!  I ran around with HALO last night in Borlis Pass and we had so much fun. Also having a queue the whole night in 2 maps (EB and SoR) we have the numbers now we just need to continue building was we started and eventually I believe SoR can rise to the top again! I'm getting to that point again where I spend every second I'm online in WvW :D Anyway I'm so proud of this server and happy to be apart of it!

Officer of [FIRE]Chariot of Fire also known as ProteinBar

It's too bad they all decided to leave us.  Those guys were a real force to be reckoned with!  It was fun just trying to keep up with them. 

That being said, servers are just pieces of computer hardware.  What makes them communities is groups like GSCH.  I can't even count how many hours I spent chasing Endo around in WvW with my GSCH tag on.  It was fun winning, and it made me a better player when he cursed us out for getting killed... made me realize the value in staying alive, that's for sure! 

But SoR is the only server in the game that, from it's moment of creation, recognized the legend of a community.  The WvW crew that left us high and dry can't take that with them.  They might get a great ranking, they might get their WvW weapon rewards quicker, and they might get recognition for being the warriors they are from others like them.... and they'll deserve those things.  But there are some things that they won't get.  And for those of us who do, it's tough to know that we'll probably lose alot more in WvW because they don't get it.  Maybe some day, they will.

At any rate, long days and pleasant nights, and I'll see you all on the battlefield!